After Encounter with TSA, Man Decides Not to Fly, Government Goon Threatens to Sue for $10,000
November 14th, 2010Update: TSA to Investigate
Via: Sign On San Diego:
The Transportation Security Administration has opened an investigation targeting John Tyner, the Oceanside man who left Lindbergh Field under duress on Saturday morning after refusing to undertake a full body scan.
Tyner recorded the half-hour long encounter on his cell phone and later posted it to his personal blog, along with an extensive account of the incident. The blog went viral, attracting hundreds of thousands of readers and thousands of comments.
Michael J. Aguilar, chief of the TSA office in San Diego, called a news conference at the airport Monday afternoon to announce the probe. He said the investigation could lead to prosecution and civil penalties of up to $11,000.
TSA agents had told Tyner on Saturday that he could be fined up to $10,000.
“That’s the old fine,” Aguilar said. “It has been increased.”
—End Update—
Via: Insert Title:
At this point, I thought it was all over. I began to make my way to the stairs to exit the airport, when I was approached by another man in slacks and a sport coat. He was accompanied by the officer that had escorted me to the ticketing area and Mr. Silva. He informed me that I could not leave the airport. He said that once I start the screening in the secure area, I could not leave until it was completed. Having left the area, he stated, I would be subject to a civil suit and a $10,000 fine. I asked him if he was also going to fine the 6 TSA agents and the local police officer who escorted me from the secure area. After all, I did exactly what I was told. He said that they didn’t know the rules, and that he would deal with them later. They would not be subject to civil penalties. I then pointed to Mr. Silva and asked if he would be subject to any penalties. He is the agents’ supervisor, and he directed them to escort me out. The man informed me that Mr. Silva was new and he would not be subject to penalties, either. He again asserted the necessity that I return to the screening area. When I asked why, he explained that I may have an incendiary device and whether or not that was true needed to be determined. I told him that I would submit to a walk through the metal detector, but that was it; I would not be groped. He told me that their procedures are on their website, and therefore, I was fully informed before I entered the airport; I had implicitly agreed to whatever screening they deemed appropriate. I told him that San Diego was not listed on the TSA’s website as an airport using Advanced Imaging Technology, and I believed that I would only be subject to the metal detector. He replied that he was not a webmaster, and I asked then why he was referring me to the TSA’s website if he didn’t know anything about it. I again refused to re-enter the screening area.
The man asked me to stay put while he walked off to confer with the officer and Mr. Silva. They went about 20 feet away and began talking amongst themselves while I waited. I couldn’t over hear anything, but I got the impression that the police officer was recounting his version of the events that had transpired in the screening area (my initial refusal to be patted down). After a few minutes, I asked loudly across the distance if I was free to leave. The man dismissively held up a finger and said, “hold on”. I waited. After another minute or so, he returned and asked for my name. I asked why he needed it, and reminded him that the female supervisor/agent had already taken a report. He said that he was trying to be friendly and help me out. I asked to what end. He reminded me that I could be sued civilly and face a $10,000 fine and that my cooperation could help mitigate the penalties I was facing. I replied that he already had my information in the report that was taken and I asked if I was free to leave. I reminded him that he was now illegally detaining me and that I would not be subject to screening as a condition of leaving the airport. He told me that he was only trying to help (I should note that his demeanor never suggested that he was trying to help. I was clearly being interrogated.), and that no one was forcing me to stay. I asked if tried to leave if he would have the officer arrest me. He again said that no one was forcing me to stay. I looked him in the eye, and said, “then I’m leaving”. He replied, “then we’ll bring a civil suit against you”, to which I said, “you bring that suit” and walked out of the airport.
I’ve never heard anything like this. I did a little research and did find this list of fines:
http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/Sanction_Guidance_for_Individuals_7-15-2004.pdf
There are fines for interfering with screening (C.1 and C.4).
It sounds like they wanted to make a nasty threat to coerce him to comply.
The part “he explained that I may have an incendiary device” indicates that they were holding him on suspicion of a crime. If he was committing a crime, they would have needed to find evidence of it. Just trying to fly somewhere is *NOT* reasonable suspicion.
Unfortunately, it’s an individual against the government, which rarely goes well for the individual. The government has skewed the laws to basically indicate every individual is a suspected terrorist, and by attempting to fly, they have given probable cause for search and seizure.
This has successfully been applied in other places, such as random DUI checkpoints on the highway. By driving a motor vehicle after a particular time, you may be subject to search and interrogation.
In this day, it’s almost worth bringing your attorney and a reliable witness along when you fly, because if the government does decide that you, random citizen, the written report and witness testimony will clearly show that you’ve given them all the probable cause that they’d ever need.
And no, I don’t believe that any of it is legally just, nor even legal under the Constitution.
“bringing your attorney and a reliable witness along when you fly” – interesting idea. May not be long before you need to do this anytime you leave your home. I suppose rich people already do.
Even better.
Just think – how long before Certified Reliable Witness is a accepted career path? Then you must have a Certification Board, Certified Reliable Witness instructors, instruction materials, national and regional organizations, a Council for CRW Public Relations, the National Lobby for CRW, the Journal of Certified Reliable Witnesses Monthly, the American Association of Retired Certified Reliable Witnesses…
Of course, by way of counter-balance, law enforcement will all need training as CRWs themselves, and every police department from Barney Fife to LAPD will need a new Division Head of Reliable Witnessing.
Not only do you get air security, you get job creation!
“Pardon me sir, but I wouldn’t do what you’re doing – not without a Certified Reliable Witness present!”
Zeke
On NPR tonight there was a news article about this guys video (at the end of the link Kevin provided) going viral on the internet. Interesting to me that NPR is voicing human pushback against the TPTB.
I went poking around to see if Janet Napolitano (sp) has corporate links to the companies that manufacture this technology (since she appears to be endorsing the technology – she said “oh its just a ping,” but said nothing about the groping stuff. Another Bailout if you ask me.
The US General Accountability Office also came up in my search, and accordingly, they recommended a cost benefit analyses which the TSA did not do. They also said this technology would not have caught the underwear bomber.
So what the fluck is going on? Sounds to me like the TSA is going off the deep end to serve their corporate masters. Funny thing is, a Deepak Chopra is on the board of one these companies who manufactures these machines, And I don’t know if its the same Deepak Chopra who preaches peace love and understanding. These days, you NEVER KNOW which way the wind blows with profit taking.
Thinking I might just take a credit on my Christmas flight. TSA is going over the top with this one, and if we just don’t say NO to all of this BS they’ll keep trying to take more of our rights away. Freedom to fly. GONE. Freedom to carry a bag on board with contents that are NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Gone. Everyone and NO ONE is a terrorist these days.
Next they’ll be checking the fillings in our teeth for gold before we board a flight. We, the TSA reserve the right to remove your gold filling because we have determined there might be a radioactive device only contained in gold fillings. See how ridiculous this BS is?
I have a question or two:
1. Since 8/11 is it the unspoken manifesto of the Department of Homeland Security to undermine the airline industry? Do they not want people to enjoy the uh right to fly? Is there some information that the airlines hold re 9/11 that challenges the “official” story? If not, why is the TSA making it ever more difficult to fly on an airplane? What’s up? Are we getting close to unfolding the SHAM all this security BS is or WHAT?
2. What connection does the Obama administration have with the security companies? This is ridiculous. The U.S. GAO said that the TSA needed to do a cost benefit analysis since installing these scanner boogars in the US alone is $3 billion. Like we can afford this war on the airlines. They GAO also said these dastardly machines wouldn’t have detected the underwear bomber. I am so happy that there is some push back on this underwear scanner bullshit. Its about time we just started saying NO! I’m not going to take your bullshit anymore. I like this guy and that he had the guts to say NO, you will not grab my crotch. Thank you sir. I will do the same next time I fly. No grabbing. No scanner.
It doesn’t make a person want to fly on a U.S. airline. I foresee people driving or taking the bus rather than flying. If they have to fly, I see them taking a bus to Mexico or Canada and catching a flight from there rather than put up with these onerous and creepy security measures. The airlines will soon be complaining about dropping revenues due to people driving rather than flying and being subjected to this security nonsense. I wonder at airlines going along with these new security measures considering it will scare customers away.
We were actually just talking about the possibility of taking ground transport to Mexico/Canada and flying from there. If it were possible to believe that Amtrak were this crafty, I’d think they were behind this as a way to bolster travel on their passenger routes. Too bad the train system in the US is in such decline.
No one I’ve talked to has been able to come up with a good outcome for the TSA ramp-up. As long as our government persists with its ‘Never admit a mistake’ policy, criticism will only result in ever more idiotic security measures. I’ve been joking for years that the end game is mandatory sedation at security and ‘stack-the-bodies-and-fly’ SOP.
In a tin-foil moment, I think this is just part of a campaign to make mandatory biometric registration/implants seem palatable. How much less invasive it will seem if your identity (and other factors) can be just verified by communication with the little chip embedded in your left buttock? No more carrying of papers, no more onerous shuffling of boarding passes…plus which, with just a little more work, it’ll probably be possible to rig up a scanning system which works from inside your body to (supposedly) identify signs of ‘aberrant behavior’.
Zeke
I recently asked the TSA about the RTP – Registered Traveler Program. I heard about it awhile back, where you would give the TSA your retinal scan, fingerprints, background info, and first born child (only the last one is not real). You would give this up for a free pass through security. I was thinking about doing this if it could get me past the new scanning/groping BS. TSA guy said that there was no way out of scanning/groping, and that the advantage to the RTP is that it would get me “through the process faster” (some advantage). This is just more evidence showing these procedures are not about security at all but about intimidation, power, humiliation, control, and squashing the last ounce of resistance out of us.